seems to me like a lot of the "disorder" being decribed here wouldn't be a problem if we as a society cared enough to spend money giving homeless people a place to live, treating drug addicts and the mentally ill, etc. You get what you pay for, or in this case, don't pay for.
also, very aside from the main point but just to clarify because this comes up a lot - in Japan, onsen (hot spring) resorts still often (but not invariably) ban tattoos, but sento (public baths, which are the same basic thing but usually regular water not spring water) in the cities don't care. and it's a lot cheaper!
Good thoughts! I somehow missed Arnade’s piece, so thanks for surfacing it...it resonates with a lot of things I’ve been writing about lately. One thought is that the issue may be less about striking the right balance than about framing. Arnade's argument seems to slide between political individualism (the liberal tradition) and expressive individualism (how people behave, lifestyle choices, etc.). Those aren’t quite the same thing, and conflating them may make it look as if our tolerance for the latter is the price we must pay for the former. I think there's more to it...I'm still thinking about it. There might be an essay there!
Japan has political liberalism coupled with far less expressive individualism than Americans are used to. I think the US could do with a little bit less expressive individualism, honestly, but where to dial it in is a difficult question (and people here probably wouldn't accept giving up very much, if any, of it). I'd look forward to reading what you have to say about it.
I think our public disorder extends beyond cities, as you seem to say as well. I think of unsafe driving as another firm of antisocial behavior that someone else may describe as freedom, and is anything that is far less frequent in Japan than here.
But like you, Id like for every mother, grandma, child and young woman who had a few drinks to feel perfectly safe and comfortable taking the train - also like they do in Japan. But I did find it charming when kids get on the subway and have a dance party. Id prefer the former even if it means we lose the latter.
I like your angle on this, while possibly having different preferences than you regarding where on the order/freedom continuum I'd like society to be. That being said, I'm always interrogating myself about it, because it's so difficult to nail down.
I used to live in Japan. I love the rules that govern its public spaces, and I don't feel the discomfort you describe at all while I'm there. I have no desire to retain for myself the ability to sneak a snack or be loud and rude on a train. That being said, I found completely going behind the curtain, working for a Japanese company, to be very challenging, in a way that makes me wonder how much of that public order depends not just on people refraining from doing undesired things, but also on people in positions of responsibility for it working very hard. One of my superiors at work often liked to say that Japan is a wonderful place to be a consumer, but a terrible place to be a producer. Some of Japan's workplace habits may be anachronisms that survive mostly on inertia, but how much is it possible to let people relax before the urban environment begins to deteriorate? I want to believe there's some breathing room there, but I don't know exactly how much.
In the US once more, I'm trying to avoid being completely radicalized by how much of a mess everything beyond my front door is. I'm irritated by how territorial people are, how they treat any place they happen to be like their living room, how they consider the condition of public facilities to be somebody else's problem. I don't want to shun people for having tattoos and body piercings, but I do carry around a vague sense that the mainstream has become more fond of countercultural signifiers than is healthy. I want to say the ideal for me is closer to the Japanese side than the American side, but given how demanding it can be to exist as a responsible member of society in Japan, it's definitely somewhere in between.
I was stationed in Japan and thru my alumni club was friends with a lot of Americans (some Japanese-Americans) who worked thr salary man lifestyle, and it did seem oppressive from the outside (and to many of them it felt pretty oppressive).
It left me with the impression that Japan was a great place to live but maybe not as much fun to work (unless like me you were working for a foreign government).
seems to me like a lot of the "disorder" being decribed here wouldn't be a problem if we as a society cared enough to spend money giving homeless people a place to live, treating drug addicts and the mentally ill, etc. You get what you pay for, or in this case, don't pay for.
also, very aside from the main point but just to clarify because this comes up a lot - in Japan, onsen (hot spring) resorts still often (but not invariably) ban tattoos, but sento (public baths, which are the same basic thing but usually regular water not spring water) in the cities don't care. and it's a lot cheaper!
Good thoughts! I somehow missed Arnade’s piece, so thanks for surfacing it...it resonates with a lot of things I’ve been writing about lately. One thought is that the issue may be less about striking the right balance than about framing. Arnade's argument seems to slide between political individualism (the liberal tradition) and expressive individualism (how people behave, lifestyle choices, etc.). Those aren’t quite the same thing, and conflating them may make it look as if our tolerance for the latter is the price we must pay for the former. I think there's more to it...I'm still thinking about it. There might be an essay there!
Do it!
Japan has political liberalism coupled with far less expressive individualism than Americans are used to. I think the US could do with a little bit less expressive individualism, honestly, but where to dial it in is a difficult question (and people here probably wouldn't accept giving up very much, if any, of it). I'd look forward to reading what you have to say about it.
Thanks, Maia! I think that's a relevant tension to explore. I'll likely write something this week, and I'll drop the link back here when it's out.
I think our public disorder extends beyond cities, as you seem to say as well. I think of unsafe driving as another firm of antisocial behavior that someone else may describe as freedom, and is anything that is far less frequent in Japan than here.
But like you, Id like for every mother, grandma, child and young woman who had a few drinks to feel perfectly safe and comfortable taking the train - also like they do in Japan. But I did find it charming when kids get on the subway and have a dance party. Id prefer the former even if it means we lose the latter.
Ty for giving even more to think about in these 'interesting' times.
I like your angle on this, while possibly having different preferences than you regarding where on the order/freedom continuum I'd like society to be. That being said, I'm always interrogating myself about it, because it's so difficult to nail down.
I used to live in Japan. I love the rules that govern its public spaces, and I don't feel the discomfort you describe at all while I'm there. I have no desire to retain for myself the ability to sneak a snack or be loud and rude on a train. That being said, I found completely going behind the curtain, working for a Japanese company, to be very challenging, in a way that makes me wonder how much of that public order depends not just on people refraining from doing undesired things, but also on people in positions of responsibility for it working very hard. One of my superiors at work often liked to say that Japan is a wonderful place to be a consumer, but a terrible place to be a producer. Some of Japan's workplace habits may be anachronisms that survive mostly on inertia, but how much is it possible to let people relax before the urban environment begins to deteriorate? I want to believe there's some breathing room there, but I don't know exactly how much.
In the US once more, I'm trying to avoid being completely radicalized by how much of a mess everything beyond my front door is. I'm irritated by how territorial people are, how they treat any place they happen to be like their living room, how they consider the condition of public facilities to be somebody else's problem. I don't want to shun people for having tattoos and body piercings, but I do carry around a vague sense that the mainstream has become more fond of countercultural signifiers than is healthy. I want to say the ideal for me is closer to the Japanese side than the American side, but given how demanding it can be to exist as a responsible member of society in Japan, it's definitely somewhere in between.
I was stationed in Japan and thru my alumni club was friends with a lot of Americans (some Japanese-Americans) who worked thr salary man lifestyle, and it did seem oppressive from the outside (and to many of them it felt pretty oppressive).
It left me with the impression that Japan was a great place to live but maybe not as much fun to work (unless like me you were working for a foreign government).